In observation of Pride month, the Current invited a diverse quartet of drag artists to participate in a roundtable discussion addressing the unprecedented rise in anti-LGBTQ+ bills, the conundrum of performing at kid-friendly events and ways we can work together for positive change. As hoped, our lovely and talented panelists — Foxxy Blue Snacks, Hunsen Abequeer, Pancho Panza and Prada Hill-Dlux — handily proved that drag can take myriad forms and should never be forced into a single box.
In addition to acting as photographer, San Antonio drag aficionado Julián P. Ledezma produced this project, which was generously hosted by both Pride Center San Antonio and La Ruina.
Drags of the Roundtable
What do you all think these anti-LGBT, anti-drag bills are actually about?
Pancho Panza: It's about power and control: trying to control our bodies, trying to control what we do and trying to keep us in check. That's what the abortion bans are doing — [as are] the drag bans and the bans on children getting access to life-saving health care.
Hunsen Abequeer: I feel like the people supporting this rhetoric are like an animal backed into a corner right now. They understand that times are changing and that if they don't do anything to stop it they're gonna be left in the past. So they're trying to preserve their ideals and their ways of thinking. They are not open to progress, because they truly believe that they are going to be treated the way they have treated minorities in the past. I think they're really struggling to hold onto that power and control. And they are really just wanting to keep people complacent and keep people in check.
Foxxy Blue Snacks: It has nothing to do with us or with drag — or how we dress or our performances. It's a distraction. ... San Antonio is built on a foundation of community care. We've spent many times taking our turns in the fire. Folks that have been part of this activist community [have fought] for immigrant rights, for reproductive rights, for access to gender-affirming care. Luckily we know what to do. San Antonio is a shining example of a community that can organize an amazing protest or a march with music, familia, food, laughter and performance. As a queer community, it's our turn to work through what's being put on us.
Has the rise of anti-LGBTQ bills and anti-drag sentiment affected your work as a performer in any way?
Hunsen Abequeer: I'm kind of afraid to take family friendly gigs. I just had a gig yesterday that I was not aware was going to be family friendly. And when I saw kids in the audience, I genuinely had a moment where I was like, do I keep performing? Do I look at the kids? Do I interact with them? I don't mind performing in front of children. I think my drag is very family friendly and relatable for a general audience. And it sucks that now I really have to think about that. I can't tell my mom to bring my little sister to Pride shows and things like that. I don't feel safe having my sister at events like that. Because you never know who may show up to protest and someone else may cause violence that would not have been there in the past.
Prada Hill-Dlux: It makes us have to think a lot more about what we're doing. We have to make sure that it is appropriate and obviously family friendly, if that's what the event requires. I'm a lot more cautious about what I do. The Dakota East Side Ice House is a family friendly venue. If we don't have any kids in the audience that day, we're good to go. But if we do see a kid, we take that into consideration and either do a family friendly track or routine.
Pancho Panza: I mentioned earlier that I co-founded Los MENtirosos drag king troupe. We also co-founded a drag king bilingual storytime right before the pandemic. We did a couple of storytimes in person and then went virtual during the pandemic with different nonprofit organizations. We had been planning to do a drag king bilingual storytime based on the book We Are Water Protectors, [which] talks about environmental justice and protecting the water. And when the folks at the Starlighter got attacked, we moved the date. We've never shied away from performing and we call ourselves "dragtivists" because we go to the Lege, and we fight and we testify. But we were thinking about the kids and the families. A lot of the kids that come to see us are trans, are queer, and we didn't want them to face any violence. ... Whenever I produce shows, I make sure that it's at a community center that's going to have our back — and make sure that folks are aware of what to look for. I'm a little nervous [when] it's family friendly, but I'm not afraid. I just want to make sure that we're protecting the families and the kids.
Foxxy Blue Snacks: The one thing that has changed is my routine. When you do something that's family oriented, you have to get into a different headspace in the morning and recognize that it could happen. ... When I do a show that's family friendly, I always bring an escort with me — and he's real cute, so that's helpful. (Laughs.) After the Pulse nightclub shooting, anytime I leave the house dressed this way — especially in a high-risk state like Texas — I have to come to terms with the fact that I may not come back. I think that's a huge part of why performance is activism. ... We have to know that this comes with a risk. To me, the concept of safe space has been jeopardized. I don't believe in naming [or] creating "safe space" anymore, because we can't control everything around us. I think it sets us up for potentially harming our community by naming something a "safe space." I'm a burlesque performer, so oftentimes I'm in 21-and-up spaces already. But as a performer, I get ready for an all-ages event very differently.
Hunsen Abequeer: [Kids] see drag performers and think, "Oh, that's a princess or a prince" — the way they would see a Disney character. They're not thinking about what's in our pants. Some people like to make it a bigger thing than it has to be. Those are the people that are thinking about what's in our pants. I'm like, "You are projecting this sexuality on us as performers." Drag has long passed the days of mere cross-dressing. I think a lot of those people probably think of cross-dressing as an inherently sexual or kink-related thing, because that's probably something they're secretly into. They see us and are ashamed of themselves and what they think of when they look at drag performers. They're conflating it. Kids aren't thinking about that. They're just like, "Oh my god, look at this beautiful dress and your hair is purple!" People [thinking] of drag as an inherently sexual act is just insane and says a lot about what is going on in those people's heads.
Foxxy Blue Snacks: It's also OK if it is. My drag is inherently sexual. I'm a burlesque performer. I'm a stripper, and I don't make any apologies for that. ... My art isn't necessarily for all ages. If our art is inherently sexual, that's absolutely OK.
Hunsen Abequeer: But to say that all drag is inherently sexual, I think is a problem. It's just like how there are movies for kids and movies for adults — you're not going to take your kid to an R-rated movie. ... So, why can't drag performers be diverse and dynamic performers that understand, like Foxxy was saying, that when you're going to perform for children, it's a different story than when you're gonna perform at a club as a burlesque entertainer. You understand the difference between those two audiences.
Pancho Panza: Also people don't understand that there's different types of drag performers. I only do music in Spanish. When I do family-friendly [shows], I do cumbias because that's what the babies listen to at home. They dance with you and are just like, "Oh, my god, look at all the glitter!" I grew up with Juan Gabriel. Kids know who Juan Gabriel is because their moms are cleaning to it on Sundays. (Laughs.) It's familiar for them. There's draglesque, and there's Latinx drag kings and there's gore drag performers. For them to sexualize and put drag in one category is messed up. And even the language they use on the drag bills is wild.
Let's expand on that language a bit.
Pancho Panza: The original language read [paraphrasing], Sexually oriented performance, defined as a man impersonating a woman, a woman impersonating a man, as well as actual or simulated sex acts, nudity, and anything that appeals to the prurient interest of sex.
Hunsen Abequeer: This language is so vague that it doesn't just affect drag performers, it affects trans people just living their lives in public. As a trans man, someone [could] see me in public and say, "You're in drag. You're a woman dressed up as a man right now. My child's here and I think this is inappropriate." So I have to go home and put on a skirt and a bra? Is it going to come down to them making us wear articles of clothing that match our assigned gender at birth? Because that's literally what the Stonewall Riots were started over. We are backpedaling so far at this point that the word "progress" doesn't even mean anything. I feel like all the progress that was made in the last 70 years is just out the window. It's been horrifying to watch it happen in real time and understand where things are going and how the dominoes are falling. I've asked a lot of people who are not in the queer community if they're aware of what's going on. They're like, "No, what's happening?" That's what's really getting me is that the general public that is not directly affected by this stuff — unless they're on the other side where they're hating everything so hard — they do not know. And it's because most people don't even care about trans people. ... But it's the ones that have so much hate in their hearts that scream the loudest.
Pancho Panza: Let me read you the new language — the language that passed. It doesn't directly say "drag" but it's even worse. It says [paraphrasing], The exhibition of sexual gesticulations using accessories or prosthetics that exaggerate male or female sexual characteristics with the actual or simulated exhibition of representation. So if I, as a trans non-binary person, wear a packer or a binder, that could be interpreted as an exhibition or prosthetic that exaggerates male characteristics. ... So it's very vague. People can interpret it however they want. The thing that happened in Texas is, it passed and is sitting on the governor's desk but he hasn't signed it. He only signed SB 14, which is the ban on healthcare for trans kids. We believe he did that because he wants to bring it back for the special session to include specific language about banning drag performances.
Have you found that there's more solidarity within the LGBTQ+ community as a result of all this?
Prada Hill-Dlux: I think so. I think we all keep each other accountable. And make sure that your buddy is staying in line and not getting in trouble. We all hold each other pretty much accountable ... here in San Antonio at least.
Pancho Panza: I love seeing all the support. Remember in December when there was that [protest] over A Drag Queen Christmas? It was a lot of support. And the other side, the antis, it was like four people. I want to bring that energy to drag shows to actually compensate folks. ... I don't live off of drag but there are drag performers that live off of their art. So yes, be out there supporting us, but also support with your wallet and come to the shows.
Hunsen Abequeer: In the midst of all of this hatred and legislation that is targeting our community and attacking us, I have seen a lot of people band together. And I've seen a lot of people within the community trying to spread information and get people educated, encouraging people to vote, and making sure they know their rights and know what is happening. At this point, ignorance is the worst thing — not knowing fully what is going on, who is coming after us, how they're coming after us and what these bills mean. ... Spreading it as far and wide as possible and getting everybody fully aware is the most important thing we can do right now.
That leads nicely into our next talking point. It's clear that a lot of the people that have this fear of drag have never been to a drag show. What can we do within the community — or share with naysayers — that might affect positive change?
Prada Hill-Dlux: It's honestly just an expression of yourself. In my head, I'm a ballerina. So when I perform, I channel my ballerina energy out there. If somebody's a clown, they go out there and clown around and channel their clown energy. It's just freedom of expression. And if we can't express ourselves, what is the point of even being?
Hunsen Abequeer: I'm trying to make sure that our straight allies are fully aware of what's happening and trying to keep them educated as well — [including] friends and family members who may not be as involved as we are. As important as it is for us to know, it is also very important for people who [aren't] directly affected by these bills to understand how it will be affecting the people they love and care about. That's what I'm trying to do — just keep educating, keep spreading the word and making sure people are getting out and voting.
Pancho Panza: When I was part of Los MENtirosos, we performed at a lot of queer spaces but we also performed at a lot of alternative spaces. We performed at a wedding. It was a queer wedding, but a lot of the family members weren't [queer]. They came up to us and were like, "Oh my god, y'all are fabulous! I've never been to a drag show. This was great!" I'm not saying to put yourself in a position where you're performing somewhere that isn't [welcoming]. But some of those gigs — like performing at a quinceañera, a wedding or events that aren't [entirely] queer — [can lead to] other folks getting that exposure. ... But also, yes, educate family members. Educate friends in whatever space that you are when people are talking about these bills.
Foxxy Blue Snacks: It's a lot for us to have to experience the trauma of this being a target on our own backs, and then have to educate the rest of the world about it. I think our allies need to step up and do this work themselves. If you want to call yourself a drag aficionado and you turn on Drag Race, then you also need to show up in the other ways that matter. ... I think the biggest thing for us as performers is to keep our heads down and continue to inspire hope. That is why performance happens. When times get tough, we have to buckle down and do this. We are the ones that distract everyone from having to live with this horrible reality. We're the ones that get to transport people to a different place where everyone is beautiful and accepted and safe. ... The bill's already being overturned in Tennessee. This is a distraction. And these political cycles are exactly that. We will not be talking about this in another year. People will move on, and it'll be the next thing. So for now, I think it's important to keep our heads down, continue to celebrate, continue to create a better world than we inherited in our generations, and allow for the rest of the world to stand up and educate themselves and protect our youth.
There's been a publicized push for the ACLU's Drag Defense Fund. Are there other organizations and initiatives our readers should be aware of?
Pancho Panza: I'm on the board of the Transgender Education Network of Texas (TENT). It's a statewide org that fights anti-trans, anti-LGBTQ legislature but also [offers] education for parents of trans children. ... Equality Texas has a fellowship every two years before the legislative session starts. They train fellows to advocate and fight at the legislative level. ... There's also Corazón San Antonio and, of course, the Pride Center.
Foxxy Blue Snacks: One resource that I grew up through is Allgo, which is a statewide queer people of color organization in Austin. They [connect people with] everything from reproductive health services to gender-affirming care services.
Hunsen Abequeer: On the flip side, there are organizations people should know about because of the bad they're doing — like Moms for Liberty. There are a lot of organized hate groups right now that are fully in the pockets of the far-right Republicans making these laws. They are extremely organized and they have money. They have so much money, they are so loud, they are spinning all these stories and they are really good at convincing people on their side. Because what do they keep bringing up? The children. They love making it seem like we are out here doing all these terrible things to kids. Hey, y'all, guess what? Queer adults didn't just turn 18 and become gay all of a sudden. There are queer kids in the world who need this representation, who need to see queer adults living and succeeding and being happy. Because if they don't have that representation, if they think all they will have as adults is more hatred thrown at them, those kids will never become adults. They will die. How are they gonna die? They are going to do it themselves. It's common knowledge in our community what happens to queer kids that don't get the support they need and deserve. So we need to be louder than these groups and we need to find our local groups. The Human Rights Campaign does a lot for the queer community across the country. Find your local groups that are raising money and supporting the legislation that's going to fight the hatred. ... The Alamo Area Resource Center (AARC) here in San Antonio is a local clinic. That's where I got my first ever shot of testosterone. There's also the Kind Clinic and the San Antonio AIDS Foundation. So there's a lot here in San Antonio alone that you could donate to. But it really is about investing in the community. I know a lot of us don't even have the money to invest. But if you are sitting on some extra dough and you think, "Oh, what can I do to help? Everything is so scary right now," there are so many places that need the funds. That way we can be just as loud as those hate groups.
